Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 02, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I'd like to pull this off but I'll need your help to do it. I'll be chucking my 10 tactics shield for either an 8 tactics shield or a str. based shield if it meets 3 requirements...

max armor [duh]
hex/misc. effect
dmg reduction...

[I want a shield that does more than just one thing... I'm crazy like dat]

PvE build [no longer will I farm with this ;_;]...

12+1+3 axe
7+1 Tactics
10 curse
rest to strength

Cyclone Axe
Penetrating Blow
Eviscerate {E}
Executiner's Strike
Frenzy
Bonetti's Defense
Mark of Pain
Res Sig

Can't do more damage than this on a mob. But with these stats, I lose my ability to farm which means I now live for...
************************
PvP Mode [hyper blend build. disrupts, dmg, conditions, anti-enchant, anti-stance, etc.]

Same stats, though strength and curses are switched.

Swift Chop
Fear Me!
Eviscerate {E}
Executioner's Strike
Frenzy
Sprint
Res Sig / Plague Touch
Rend Enchantments

Ok, we have energy denial, Frenzy, HIGH dmg, Conditions, and anti-Enchantment spells. I'm probably too diverse now to be of any use... lol. Your thoughts? I'd like to sneak in Dis. Chop in there. Maybe to take the place of Res sig?

Eonwe · Sep 02, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

It looks fine to me, I'm still not too crazy about plague touch, and I clarified why in the other thread if you want to go back and look. It's one of those skills that really shines in arena but sort of loses its place in tombs, especially now that smiting has become a staple. Also, depending on how much enchantment removal your team already has, you may be able to drop rend.

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 02, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

If I can't plague touch, then I'll res sig [hopefully I won't need to bring it cause 2 or 4 other players got res sig], then it's Dis Chop all the way.

If not for Rend, then I'd probably have THAT become plague touch or maybe just use parasitic bond as a chaff for my teammates. [doh convert hex ;_;]

At worst, I'll just chuck in another axe attack. Axe Rake comes to mind. I'll need to work with better teammates in order for any meta game effect to work better for me.

smurfhunter · Sep 02, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

i still dont see why the warrior is using rend. like sheesh leave that to someoen with time on their hands, you want to be chasing that monk around like crazy. and with BA so popular now, if i see someoen using frenzy i just yell on ts for the warriors to pick a target near the ping (ping -> warrior using frenzy) although i admit with necro as your secondary you dont have much of a choice. otoh all you use is plague touch/rend, neither of which is ideal for tombs. so just go w/r.

cyclone axe - im not a big fan of it. can be fun if you know when to use it, so up to you. distracting blow is excellant, i dont see why you are without it. axe rake is wonderfull for actually being able to use some kind of attack speed increaser while hitting a moving target.

the biggest problem with these builds is to make sure you leave enough room for everything (so many skills i would like to take - only 5 places since res, asi and sprint a must).

and IMO warriors should always have a res/use it first. theyre the ones that usually stay alive longest, and casters time is more precious than a warriors time. (sounds like you can apply this to my reasoning for not using rend on a warrior, but then if a warrior is the one rending, a caster should use a sig so as not to take time away from the rending warrior, and it makes an ungodly mess. i like to keep it simple)

mr_boo · Sep 02, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

i still dont see why the warrior is using rend. like sheesh leave that to someoen with time on their hands, you want to be chasing that monk around like crazy. and with BA so popular now, if i see someoen using frenzy i just yell on ts for the warriors to pick a target near the ping (ping -> warrior using frenzy) although i admit with necro as your secondary you dont have much of a choice. otoh all you use is plague touch/rend, neither of which is ideal for tombs. so just go w/r.

Out of curiosity then, who is running Rend Enchant then on your team, if not the Warrior? The R/N?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

cyclone axe - im not a big fan of it. can be fun if you know when to use it, so up to you. distracting blow is excellant, i dont see why you are without it. axe rake is wonderfull for actually being able to use some kind of attack speed increaser while hitting a moving target.

Cyclone was part of Yukito's PvE Build. I agree, I like Distracting too much to pass up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfhunter

the biggest problem with these builds is to make sure you leave enough room for everything (so many skills i would like to take - only 5 places since res, asi and sprint a must).

and IMO warriors should always have a res/use it first. theyre the ones that usually stay alive longest, and casters time is more precious than a warriors time. (sounds like you can apply this to my reasoning for not using rend on a warrior, but then if a warrior is the one rending, a caster should use a sig so as not to take time away from the rending warrior, and it makes an ungodly mess. i like to keep it simple)

I'm kinda confused by this statement....but I know this, having Rend Enchant on a Warrior seems more logical to me than on a caster. Maybe on a R/N over a Warrior fine, but I still think it's alright on a W/N. Just my 2 cents.

Calibretto_9 · Sep 02, 2005, 06:40 PM // 18:40

I like the build, and despite my love affair with plague touch, I'd say drop it for tombs. With the standard 3 monks, you shouldn't have too much of a problem with conditions, and the rez can become more useful. Rend enchantments is, in my opinion, best brought by a ranger/necro, and then the next best thing is on a warrior/necro, so yeah, good choice on that one (Despite our naysayer here). On the other hand, I'd say drop "Fear Me." Great skill, but ran by yourself it's not as effective as disrupting chop, in my opinion. Disrupting chop, can in a sense, be considered an energy denial if you catch them casting a spell, but more importantly it's one of the best disrupters in the game. But yeah, it's a well rounded build - The changes I would make are more personal preference than anything, so you don't like my suggestions, screw them. =) Do whatever works for your teams above what any of us have to say. =)

smurfhunter · Sep 02, 2005, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_boo

I'm kinda confused by this statement....but I know this, having Rend Enchant on a Warrior seems more logical to me than on a caster. Maybe on a R/N over a Warrior fine, but I still think it's alright on a W/N. Just my 2 cents.

yea ok i reread what i wrote and it did omce out rather weird. well heres what i meant in a nutshell: theoretically, in a perfect world, you debuff the target right after you managed to do like 50% damage with whatever your attack was, and the optimal time for it to go off is right after the seed/prot spirit was loaded on.

so consider both cases:
1) warrior attacks unbuffed taregt, bringing him/her/it down to 50%. monks kick in, and target runs (this is like what always happens, its not really specific if you think about it). now target has like near full hp, and is loaded with buffs. so the warrior starts casting rend while... everyone else... watches. by the time you done casting (its like 4 seconds) target has run away and is at full hp

2) blablabla same beginning, now warrior is attacking a heavily buffed target and is doing nothing. necro casts rend, all of a sudden warrior is dropping target really fast, monks spamming, you either drop/not drop depending on alot of outside factors but in either case its better than case one.

you can make the argument that there are multiple warriors, but in either case one warrior will have to stop and rend, effectively making him a caster for that period, and casters have much better energy management and 20% chances of doing it faster.. mesmers have fastcasting... tehre are loads of reasons for choosing a caster over a warrior.

that wasnt a nutshell... more like some kind of coconut shell, but i hope it cleared up my point =/

mr_boo · Sep 02, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Thx for the reply smurfhunter, those are some valid and interesting points...thx!

smurfhunter · Sep 02, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_boo

Thx for the reply smurfhunter, those are some valid and interesting points...thx!

hey np. thanks for pointing out my unclearness or something

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 02, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

You're kind of forgetting something. Casters are targetted, a LOT. A Lot more than a warrior. Yes, people will just 'watch' as you do rend... [I think they're usually fighting off other problems aside from watching you, you're a warrior...]

What's more, when I lose 100+ hp, I can afford to because I'm tougher than the avg bear. When a caster loses 100+ hp, he's as good as toast since he's got very little defending him from hard hits.

smurfhunter · Sep 02, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

You're kind of forgetting something. Casters are targetted, a LOT. A Lot more than a warrior. Yes, people will just 'watch' as you do rend... [I think they're usually fighting off other problems aside from watching you, you're a warrior...]

What's more, when I lose 100+ hp, I can afford to because I'm tougher than the avg bear. When a caster loses 100+ hp, he's as good as toast since he's got very little defending him from hard hits.

uh he has 2 heal monks and a prot. unless its an odd build. but generally speaking, 2 heal monks and 1 monk = more than enough. when playing as an emo, if i get attacked, i just ignore. there is really no way to drop one target without a concentrated spike if you target just the one. hence the BA aoe effect - it considerably drains a monks energy trying to heal all the damage.

and as a caster, if im casting rend and i get attacked, i dont stop casting rend and run... i let the monks handle it. its their job. ofcourse im not totally weird about it, and yes i do run because some warriors still dont have sprint with them, but generally speaking, i wouldnt get too excited about running. and you are not 'as good as toast'. casters have the same hp as a tank, on my tanks i have about 485 without a bonus. (sup weapon + vigor + 30 hp). casters have just about the same. you lose 100 hp on a caster its the same as losing it on a tank. the thing is it takes longer for them to drop you 100 damage if your a tank vs being a caster, thats where the difference is.

and if healing seed didnt exist i might agree with you, but as it stands healing seed + prot spirit + shielding hands (or just any two of those) = no kill. ofcourse they debuff but im just ignoring everything but the caster and the actual damage s/he takes (and the monks, ignoring them would be kind of dumb)

Yukito Kunisaki · Sep 03, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

If the metagame really is true and warriors aren't targetted, then Rend is still far better on a warrior.

Not just dying to the hp sacrifice in rend, but in interruption. You're a caster, people WANT to interrupt you. I'm a warrior, most people don't care [though I have experienced far different, the metagame tends to shy away from what really goes on at times...]

Rend = slooow cast. Even on a mesmer with 10 fast cast, [I've done it...] it's NOT fast enough to be hard to interrupt. As a caster, eyes are on you about 90% of the time. I'm certain that you won't be able to pull off Rend not just cause you'll live, but because there's' no such thing as total protection from being interrupted... (unless you bring that mantra of concentration, which means you're a mes/nec) Spell interrupts or Distracting Blow and the like have a chance at locking you out of Rend. Warrior's are 'almost' immune to spell interrupts because well, people see a warrior casting and they usually ignore him... That's the reason why warriors should carry rend. They're the target callers, they should be debuffers, they're the ones who WON'T be most likely to get interrupted, and they're the ones targeted last... [if the metagame was perfect and everyone followed it exactly... *shrug*]

Van the Warrior · Sep 03, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

i think i have a +44 while hexed req 7 str shield ill take a look at my vaults